‘Ridiculous’ to bring up gay marriage now – Nationalist MP Karl Gouder

The issues of divorce, IVF, and cohabitation are of higher priority than same-sex, says Nationalist MP Karl Gouder.

Nationalist MP Karl Gouder said it is "ridiculous" for him as a gay MP to bring up the issue of same-sex marriage at a time when the general public is already divided on other issues that merit more priority.

During an interview with weekly newspaper Illum Gouder said he himself was in favour of same sex marriage, saying that everyone should have equal rights, even in the matter of adoption.

But he said discussion on same-sex marriage and adoption can only start after the public tackles other issues currently dominating the public sphere.

Asked why he came out openly about his sexual orientation in a political culture that is not particularly receptive to such displays, Gouder maintained that he was raised and educated to be himself and take a stand on what be believes in. “I come from a Jesuit school. I always learned that, in life, one must try one’s best to do good, respect others, and be honest with oneself. This is Karl Gouder, and this is what I stand for,” he said.

He told interviewer and Illum editor Julia Farrugia that only good came out of ‘coming out’ openly. “If little else, other gay people approached me and told me that I had given them a glimmer of hope with what I had done,” he said.

Gouder also agreed that the PN should take a stand on divorce, and insisted that there is no room for the party to hide behind vague statements. “It is our duty to say whether the PN agrees or not,” he said. “I think the country is quite divided on the issue, but the PN has more to lose if it does not take a stand on the issue.”

Asked about Minister Austin Gatt’s ultimatum that he would resign from parliament if the party pronounced itself in favour of divorce, Gouder maintained that “nobody is bigger than the party.”

“If anyone feels that his or her principles supersede the decision taken, then he or she should step aside,” he said. Emphasising that Gatt was always loyal to the party, he said that that the “real damage” would have been in Gatt held the government in ransom by threatening to destabilise the government if the PN opted to support the introduction of divorce.

Asked however if Gatt’s grandstanding was significant in the light that he has already announced his intention to withdrawn from politics come election time, Gouder said that a lot can happen in two years.

“I admire him, but I didn’t do the same. I admire the fact that for him, the divorce issue is something significant,” he said. “I didn’t do likewise because I am comfortable as I am.”

“We all have our own principles from which we do not budge,” Gouder said however.

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Since when is equal rights and human dignity EVER "ridiculous"? Just because some other "problems" such as divorce concern a larger number of Maltese doesn't mean that they are "priorities". The true issues here are the same: the possibility for adults to do what they wish with their bodies and their lives, without the interference of religious doctrines which should be kept in their own sphere of influence rather than in the political arena. Christ himself said "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". In other words, keep religion and politics separate.
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As a liberal I find no problem with gay marriages. Karl should have the guts to say so. But the PN pulls the strings and he say what they like him to say. So much for attracting liberals within the fold.
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When is the RIGHT TIME to discuss same-sex marriages, tell me Gouder? You are ridiculous and you should be ashamed for being gay. You are betraying us, your community. Your excuse is not valid because important issues are decided daily, so why put gay rights on the shelf for a latter day. After all, you are playing with HUMAN RIGHTS, My Rights. Piss off please.
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@Michael001, enjoy your life as and how and with whoever as is rightfully your right to and I sincerely hope you get what is in my opinion rightfully yours. But please spare at least me, descriptions which due to my heterosexual orientation I find distasteful to say the least. I was reading the posts with interest as they depicting so vividly the search for a recognition, and I could see the pain inside of the lack thereof coming out. Alas your description "turned me off" if you'll excuse the pun. Clearly in this case what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. On a more general approach I simply can't understand why anyone with the possibility to improve the lives of others with similiar interests or inclinations would deem doing so as "ridiculous".
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Michael Gauci
Pass the sick bucket and get these perverts in Mount Carmel.
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On reflection, I must congratulate Gouder for putting the interests of heterosexuals and their rights before those of his homosexual brothers and sisters. What exemplary and selfless behaviour! I imagine this is what his Jesuit education has taught him. Those among us who are somewhat more cycnical might read a subtext in the reference to his Jesuit education. The subtext goes something like this - I am better than the rest of you because I received a private education and not just a private education but one at the hands of the Jesuits. I am a homosexual with a priviledged background, the kind the PN can easily accommodate and has a history of accomodating.
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Tal-Hamrija writes: "JCC, your longwinded banal scribbles prove nothing only mental illness. God is forgiving, seek help." Your comment that I suffer from a mental illness shows what kind of a Christian you really are. I am glad that you are able to spot an illness without examining a 'patient'. You also show demonstrate that you have no knowledge of Scripture on which you rely. Congratulations on using God and Christ to promote your prejudices, ignorance and hatred. Is it any wonder that Christianity is in the dumps with Christians like you. I mean who wants to be a Christian like you! The name that you go by "Tal-Hamrija" says it all. Go back to the cave where you come from. You also say: "It is present in a lot of men but they are a minority although a voiceferous minority." Make up your mind. Is homosexuality in "a lot of men" or only in a minority? Have your forgotten that women can also be homosexual? One final piece of advice. If you wish to converse and write in English, go and learn the language properly. You sentence construction leaves a lot to be desired.
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Albert Zammit
Tal-Hamrija ... seek help, you say? 'Abomination'? Abomination is when you don't respect your neighbour, that's what. You probably have no idea about the joys of sex, particularly gay sex. It's out of this world. Man, you sure don't know what you're missing. You will hit the clouds with your head when you are with a guy having a sex with him, feeling the energy being drained out of your ....! It's super! Having sex with the guy you really love, or even like, ... wow, man! And in the meantime, because of your awful and backward mentality, you refuse to accept the beauty of this union! Or worse still, you have no idea what sex is all about, in general. OH well, rather you than I! PS Did you ever read or hear that the horniest guy is gay? I rest my case!
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Michael Gauci
JCC, your longwinded banal scribbles prove nothing only mental illness. God is forgiving, seek help.
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As I see it, Gouder is there to give the very false impression that the PN is a friend of gay men and lesbians. It is not. Anyone who thinks the PN is our friend is in desperate need of a psychiatrist. This is all about appearances - apparenzi biss. The PN is not even a good economic manager. Over the years it has become the party of amateurs and the bitter and twisted. Bring on Labour.
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Tal-Hamrija writes as follows: "Two men having sex is a disgusting abomination.God does not approve,read The Bible and do not insult God by saying he does. The scriptures are very clear." What Tal-Hamrija demonstrates is the extent to which the Catholic Church left its believers in ignorance as to what the bible actually say. 1. Before you comment about Scriptural references to abominations, you have to first understand the 'purity ethics' that underlines such statements. 2. You have to decide whether these purity ethics are ritual or moral in character. 3. You then have to look at what Scriptures say is an abomination - not just one matter only. 4. Amongst the many things that Scriptures describe as abomination you have the following: idolatry (Jer 32:32-35), unclean animals even though they were created by God (Isa 65: 2, 66:17, Lev 7:21; 11:13-20, 41-42, Rec 18:2), woman's impurity after birth (Lev 12), menstruation (Lev 15), leprosy (Lev 13 and 14), having different weights and measures (Deut 25: 13-16) and so on. 5. Proverbs routinely describes liars, scoffers, and other wicked persons as objects of revulsion (abomination). 6. People other than Israelites had their own versions of abominations. Egyptians thought it an abomination to eat with Hebrews (Gen 43:32). They abominated shephers (43:64). They abominated the sacrifices Israelites offered to their God (Ex 8:22) 7. Finally you have to ask the question: why did this book or that book describe such a thing or behaviour as an abomination? It is simply not good enough to parrot what Scripture is supposed to have said withoutout understanding the "why" and putting everything into context. Sadly, Tal-Hamrija and the rest of his type forget what Christ said - love thy neighbour as thyself. Not everyone subscribves to the purity ethics of the Israelites. Christ himself did not subscribe fully to it. So much so that at no stage did he say anything about homosexuality. That adverse comment was left to Paul, an unmarried pharisee and a murderer.
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eleonoray86cws Ca?uana
X-Man, religious fundamentalism is one of the causes but not the whole reason (for example there are non religious movements that are homophobe like Neo-Nazi). The other factor is the Maltese mentality that we have a right, even duty to mind other people's business. On adoption, some say 'poor children'. To be honest, if I had to be born again I would prefer to be raised by a happily married heterosexual couple. However, being raised in a happily married same-sex couple is definitely much better than being raised in a violent environment or in an institution. Children in a happy family environment are not up for adoption anyway.
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the problem here is , that too many people were raised with LIES! brainwashed by the catholic church. Just ,think and use your mind. adam and eve were the first people on earth? do you really believe that? I am sorry but that is a LIE! ask yourself, how can all the people on earth ,came to be from two people?:) the seth abel andcain ,what they did ? sex with their mother? than what? sex between sisters and brothers along with their parents? this is all ridicolous! Not for nothing that In Malta , we don't have a divorce law etc.. and what is wrong for two people same sex, love each other? what is your problem with that? do they effect you or what? just leave them live their lives ,like you and me and everybody Love is all
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well yes , at least he shown his true personality! so yes i agree with him to show his true self! and with his statement ,that is a message that he will say yes to Gay marriage when the time comes. But the thing is will he vote in what he believes in, when the time comes? apart thats its good for those people? because the PN is a demochristian party which he is in. this all does not make sense. Unless the PN will change from its outdated roots.you know thta by changing many better things will come out.
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Michael Gauci
Michael001,Two men having sex is a disgusting abomination.God does not approve,read The Bible and do not insult God by saying he does. The scriptures are very clear.
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Some people are saying that Gouder is in the wrong party. I respectfully disagree. He is in the right party for homophobes. As someone has written, had it not been for Labor, Gouder and his mates would be in prison. Have a read at the crap the PN members said when Mintoff decriminalised homosexuality in Malta. All PN members voted against decriminalisation. Now a gay PN MP is saying it is too early to discuss gay marriage in Malta. Well, what about discussing anti-discrimination legislation or anti-vilification legislation, Mr Gouder? Or the rights of gay and lesbian overseas partners to join their spouses in Malta? Is this also too early?
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Gouder was put in parliament for one reason and one reason only - to counter Labor's decision to have a gay and lesbian group within the MLP. No gay man or lesbian should vote for any of these PN clowns. Labor has been talking about gay rights for years. Muscat may not agree with marriage but he favours civil unions. Where does the PN stand on these issues? Gouder has done a Penny Wong! No gay man and lesbian should see Gouder as representing their interests.
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"rods" should have read "words".
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Gouder says "Nationalist MP Karl Gouder said it is "ridiculous" for him as a gay MP to bring up the issue of same-sex marriage at a time when the general public is already divided on other issues that merit more priority." Typical. He is there grandstanding as an openly gay man but does not to advance the rights of other gay men and lesbians. Yet he is taking a stand with respect to divorce which at this stage affects only heterosexuals or pseudo-heterosexuals. How nice to have a gay MP putting the rods "ridiculous" and "same-sex marriage" in the same sentence! Why do otehr issues are more important than those of gay rights, I wonder? I suspected from the word go that Gouder is a joke, the typical gay Nationalist who is full of nothing but hot air.
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Gouder says: "But he said discussion on same-sex marriage and adoption can only start after the public tackles other issues currently dominating the public sphere." Why? Are the Maltese too stupid to discuss a range of issues?
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eleonoray86cws Ca?uana
Pro same sex marriage and with the right wing conservatives? While Dr Adrian Vassallo with the progressive socialists? On what basis do you choose which party to join? Tradition? Definitely not ideology!
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Albert Zammit
Tal-Hamrija ... hehe, your venom against homosexuals comes out, without your wanting to and you know why? Because you are what we call the self-denying gay, the closet gay, call yourself what you like. That is why some backiward societies are against gays - because you see them as a menace to your own so-called macho image. The people who are homophobic the most are known because they are gays inside, and they are so sad about it that they change their natural instinct into hatred towards gays ... hekk, just to try and feebly show how mucho and supposedly heterosexual they are. Would anyone be afraid of minorities? The answer is NO. People are afraid of 'maggoranzi' and that is precisely why people spout out their green bile against gays - because they see themselves in them but they have no balls to live their own lives as gays do. We have only one life and one can live it decently, whether loving a person of the same sex or of the opposite sex. God does not see the difference between the sexes as long as there is real love. 'People like me need treatment'. And what would YOU of all people know about what 'treatment' is! How about someone treating you? An impossible task, I am sure.
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Let's get real all of us, gays have rights like anyone else. While I don't agree with same sex marriage I do believe that civil contracts are in need and I'll give a true life example. A gay was shunned by family members but found a friend with whom he started living with. He got very sick and this friend took care of him till he passed away,then all hell broke lose as the family members wanted his inheritance, but the guy had drawn up a will and left his friend through thick and thin all he possesed. A civil contract can avoid a lot of problems in such cases as it will indicate the living partner as the rightful inheritor in case there is no will. Whatever people might think or how they consider homosexuality one must be alert to the needs and rights of all no matter their sexual orientation. After all there are gays and there are gays as there are priests and there are priests etc. etc.
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Michael Gauci
Michael001, It isn't present in me so stop spouting your homosexual drivel. It is present in a lot of men but they are a minority although a voiceferous minority.It is a perversion, always was, always will be. Your claim to find so many married men prefering sex with other men is a complete lie.People like you need treatment.
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Albert Zammit
BONKERS JOE - note that nom de plume!!! - says that marriage is in decay because of 'these weird ideas'. I wonder what he means by that. I wonder if he is yet another of those married men, tired of having sex with their wives, or perhaps their wives giving them 'sormhom' or 'headache' everytime they try and have feeble sex with them. The truth of the matter is that so many married men realise in their heart of hearts that they made a stupid mistake in marrying. Why did they get married? Because they wanted to get away from home; from their own families; because they wanted to stifle their homosexual instinct, present in each and everyone of us men. Because they wanted children as otherwsie people would talk about t hem. because they wanted a woman to look after them, cook for them, and to beat up mercilessly at times! And then, you find so many married men preferring to have sex with other men, and not with their wives. Let us admit it: most of the kazini tal-banda, as well as other kazini, even political clubs, stem from this urge of male companionship. And that is part of the reason why the Catholic church is so much against homosexuals, to the extent that it exerts pressure on society and governments not to tolerate homosexuality - just read what this Pope once wrote about gays, when he was cardinal!
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Albert Zammit
Karl, taghtix kaz nies li ma jafux x'jaqbdu jghidu, bhal BONKERS JOE. In-nom de plume li ghazel ghalih innifsu, jiddeskrivieh sew: BONKERS. La tlaqna, tlaqna. Mohh maghluq. Persegwitat. U tinsiex haga wahda, Karl: l-iktar nies li huma omofobici, bhal Bonkers Joe l-ewwel wiehed, generalment ikunu l-iktar nies omosesswali imma fl-istess hin maghluqin u msakkrin, prigunieri fid-dinja li tkun inbniet ghalihom. Nammirak, Karl, ghandek il-bajd li taghmel u tghid affarijiet li hemm diversi politikanti u nies ohra qas ghandhom kuragg li jaghmlu u jghidu!
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First of all Karl, you are alienated 'wahda nobis' to be a member in the Vatican controlled PN. I bet you are one of those who think of their PN as the Liberal Party; if such is the case, "godetelo fino in fondo"! Now pull the other one and say like the "super aliented Maltese Lesbians" that the MLP should give gays rights to marry and adopt before you vote for it! These "cuori ingrati" do not even know their history: MLP decriminilised against homosexualtiy in 1972.If it was not for the MLP you will end up at Kordin for sleeping with your friends. Oscar Wilde knew who his political enemies were: you don't! NB Karl :nothing personal just strong but truthful political opinions. Good Luck.
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I thought God made dam and Eve not Adam and Steve. marriage is decaying because of these weird ideas. If not having divorce keeps gay marriage away, I am anti divorce from now on
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If the only values Karl got from a Jesuit school are to 'come out' then he wasted many years in that school. So the writing is on the wall; Once Karl Gouder is satisfied we have divorce He will do a JPO and start a gay marriage campaign. He will then push for kids to be adopted by gay people Thank you, I now have decided that I will NOT VOTE for divorce or this blinking party ever again
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Kif jista Karl qatt johlom li Gonzipn se jkun favur dan it-tip ta' zwieg. Tinsewx li Gonzi mizzewweg mall-Knisja u li tghid hi Vangelu.
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Alfred Galea
[“I come from a Jesuit school. I always learned that, in life, one must try one’s best to do good, respect others, and be honest with oneself. This is Karl Gouder, and this is what I stand for,” he said.] Karl, you can talk the talk, we'll see if you can walk the walk when the time comes.
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Karl you are in the wrong party. I don't agree with you about same sex marriages but admire your honesty which evidently lacks in most of gonziPN.