Chamber of Advocates told that Schembri will stay banned from Church tribunals

Deborah Schembri still banned from Ecclestical Tribunal after Judicial Vicar meets Chamber of Advocates.

The chairperson of the pro-divorce movement and Labour's new candidate Deborah Schembri will remain banned from the Church's tribunal, where she practised her profession as a lawyer, the Chamber of Advocates has been told.

Chamber president Reuben Balzan said a long-awaited meeting with the tribunal took place on Tuesday, which discussed the ban of Schembri and other lawyers from the tribunal's album for expressing pro divorce views,

“They confirmed that lawyers who speak in favour of divorce, as well as lawyers who represent clients in divorce cases, will not be banned and can represent clients in the Ecclesiastic Tribunal,” Balzan said. The Chamber was also told Labour MPs Anglu Farrugia and Owen Bonnici “were never banned” from the tribunal.

But Balzan said Deborah Schembri was still banned from the tribunal. “We have requested a new meeting to discuss her case specifically,” Balzan said. No explanations were forthcoming during the meeting as to why Schembri was singled out.

Balzan pointed out that the Chamber was given a letter written by Archbishop Paul Cremona, which is planned to be made public in the coming days, but refused to disclose the contents of this letter.

Schembri’s ban caused considerable concern among lawyers, who questioned whether the Tribunal was violating her fundamental human right in denying her the right to a fair hearing to defend her case. MEP Simon Busuttil also called on government to ensure that the Ecclesiastic Tribunal’s decisions “live up to standards of human rights that the state is duty-bound to guarantee.”

Busuttil said the State cannot recognise the judgements of a non-state tribunal unless it is satisfied that it operates in a way that respects the basic tenets of human rights, just like the civil courts. "In default, the state would be failing its own duty to uphold human rights."

Schembri had her licenciate to represent clients in the Ecclesiastical Tribunal for marriage annulments withdrawn by the Judicial Vicar over her activism to introduce divorce.

In a letter addressed to her clients, the tribunal's chancellor said she had been instructed by the Judicial Vicar Mgr Arthur Said Pullicino, that "because of the well-known position taken by your advocate in favour of divorce, [Schembri] is not in a position to represent you as an advocate before this tribunal since her views on the indissolubility of marriage are not in conformity with the law of God and the church."

Schembri said that subsequently, the Judicial Vicar had informed her in another letter that “her right to operate in the Catholic tribunal had been withdrawn because she was spreading false doctrine on the indissolubility of marriage.”

Judicial Vicar Mgr Arthur Said Pullicino told MaltaToday he had personally taken the decision to remove Dr Schembri from office, and that this was in line with Canon Law - which regulates the suitability of lawyers to appear for parties in the Ecclesiastical Tribunals.

"I didn't 'remove' her from office. She excluded herself from the very start of the campaign in her public propaganda in favour of the introduction divorce," Said Pullicino said. "Canon law specifies that you must be a catholic and of good repute. As soon as she went public on divorce, I informed her clients that she was not suitable to appear for them."

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So much for Christ message of love and forgiveness. Hatred and vindictiveness more like it. We did not expect anything less! I could say Pullicino go to hell - but let god be the judge of that. In the meantime - please resign and disappear.
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Last I checked Said Pullicino's credential, I found out that he graduated with honours in the school of the Inquisition. This guy should retire or he should be kicked out because he's doing nothing but harm to the church and to the people with his irrational and stupid decisions. I respect Deborah much more than I respect you Said Pullicino.
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Judicial Vicar Mgr Arthur Said Pullicino has a rather sordid way of looking at fairness, democracy and professionality. It all adds up to one dictum: The ball is mine and so is the game. You do what I say or else YOU'RE OUT! TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT!! St. Peter was a much better PR man that this arrogant priest!
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OR YOU DO AS I SAY OR YOU WILL PAY THE CONSEGUENCES. that is the church mantra and if god forbid you are a woman than its hail and brimstone. what bad losers. they never disappoint do they. dear, church and all those who pull the strings there please start doing your job and stay out of politcs. start doing the teachings of God leave behind you all this world has to offer especially the money and act as you are suppose to. i still hope that in my life time i will see a church as Good intended to a multinational corporation who's only goal is money and making more money.
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Helenio Galea
Said Pullicino has a gun permanently aimed at the church's foot and believes that every time he shoots he's one step closer to heaven.
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Religion: prophets making profits.
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Thirteen - you caught me out there! It's the need for their version of God that is perpetuated. Otherwise, I agree the institution is parrasitic and like the Gay and Lesbian community can only survive on the offspring of others.
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B right on _ the church is not a self perpetuating institution. It desperately needs women to reproduce its next generation. Voila - that's why it wants to be intimately involved in people's sex life and in making marriages permanent. It's not that the High Priests give a toss about the quality of the union. So long as a woman stays with her husband, children will continue to be born, they hope. What other noble reason is there?
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This just goes on to show that the church has become superfluous. By their vindictive and petty action, these people simply confirm that they are just as bad as everyone else – nothing religious or good about them at all. Who needs them anyway ? I certainly don’t! I can pray to God, I can ask for His forgiveness, I can laugh and cry with Him, without needing them as intermediaries. Bet they must be dying to re-activate the MIZBLA!! Those were the days guys huh…. when you could make people’s life hell, when you could even disrespect the dead at your whim. May God have mercy on you.
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L-imħabba tal-proxxmu fl-azzjoni!!!
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duncan abela
The Chamber of Advocates should take the Ecclesiastical tribunal to the European court of human rights for denying the right of an applicant to engage a lawyer of his trust. Of course the whole problem would not exist if the decisions of such a tribunal had no civil effects on marriage . It is time for the Maltese government to rescind the current marriage protocol with the Vatican to reflect a clear separation between the civil and religious aspects of marriage.
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Joseph Sant
@ Lucas North - you miss the point completely. Even if for the sake of argument one were to accept that the Church can impose it's own rules governing lawyers the fact remains that what is happening here is that people appearing before the church tribunal are being deprived of the lawyer of their choice. May I remind you that that is a basic and fundamental human right. In so doing the church is breaking the law.... and not only local law.
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Why is it called Canon Law, because it shoots down anyone who does not agree with the church?
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May the eminent Judicial Vicar Mgr Said Pullicino inform us what action has been undertaken with respect to the albeit small number of priests accused of sexual abuse. By the standards of the cited Canon Law they are certainly not of good repute. Have they also been suspended?
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Consider this: If the Church can ban Deborah Schembri from appearing before its tribunals because her ideas about marriage are different from theirs. the by the same logic The Maltese state can bar KMB from working as a lawyer because his ideas about EU membershiop are different from theirs.....
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@ Lucas North. You are completely wrong because you are leaving out a vital part (two, actually) of the equation. One, the decisions of the Church tribunal have an effect in civil law as well. They impact on a person's civil status, not just his or her relations with the Church, and Two, if one spouse decides to take an annulment case before the Church tribunal, the other spouse cannot refuse. If he or she refuses to attend, the case will be decided anyway in his or her absence. Thus, the Church tribunal has to observe the same standards as civil and or criminal courts. In such courts lawyers may only be barred for PROVEN incompetence or misdemeanour after an open hearing before an impartial tribunal. Never for personal opinions or beliefs. Once the Church entered into a concordat with the State, it lost the right to take decisions on purely religious grounds. It bartered that right for temporal power.
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im sure JPO will keep her well fed. No worries she will not die of hunger remember the hugs and kisses after the referendum. 111
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Quoting "...good repute". Does this also count to certain priests both on a national level and world wide? I am referring to the pedophiles just in case it is not understood. If yes why are many of them still under the catholic hood?
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Ahfer u henn jalmuna l qassisin.............paroli si fatti no Wrote boxer. Jekk tmur tqerr tghid jahfrula? U jekk jahfrula tkun tista tmur fit-tribunal? Gesu hafer imma tal-knisja ta Kajjin ma Jahfrux. Having said that, I absolutely do not see what they have to forgive her for. Are they to forgive her for having a different opinion? They always believed that there were two opinions to the divorce debate, their's and the wrong one. Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
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Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.' Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?" He said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise.
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Ahfer u henn jalmuna l qassisin.............paroli si fatti no
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Nahseb li kieku Dr. Deborah Schembri ghazlet li tikkontesta l-elezzjoni ma gonzipn "il-partit li ghadu kontra d-divorzju" kieku t-Tribunal Ekklezjastiku kien jahfrilha kollox u jerga jaccetta lil Dr. Schembri, imma kieku waqa u kiser siequ, din il-Mara li tant spikkat ghall-hila, l-onesta' u l-karizma' li uriet waqt il-kampanja tar-reverendum ghazlet lil Partit Laburista bhala ghazla naturali fejn kull cittadin Liberali jhossu komdu jahdem.
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Dr Schembri , tactics against you to make you silence has angered all of Malta and Gozo .This was showed when the referendum results were out. The referendum result was the first notch in your belt and the second one will be the upcoming elections . You have been admired by a big majority of Maltese and Gozitans,
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I agree that the agreement with the church eb repealed so as to remove the precedence given to its tribunal. Why should the civil courts stop hearing a case if one of the parties decides to apply to the Church Tribunal? Why should the Civil Court of Appeal be bound to register the decision of the Church Tribunal as binding at the request of one of the parties? Everyone knows about EFA getting three annulments for his family members and to cap it all two of them for the same person in the short space of three years while others wait for some 10 years and even more. How about someone whose other better half has a Parish Priest as his/her brother and also a sister nun and getting what s/he wants to the detriment of the other spouse just because of his/her connections? How about someone who after being married for some years with children discovers that her husband is and admits that he is a homosexual and they are still suffering at the hands of the Church Tribunal who wants to send them to the Church Tribunal Psychologists who have more than 3 years of arrears to work out? This is what happens at the Church Tribunal. Do they have the guts to deny it?
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Paul Sammut
It is not a matter whether the church is democratic or not or which lawyers it rejects or accepts. What we care about is that since we pay our taxes to the State it is the duty and obligation of the State to settle our civil rights in civil courts. Said Pullicino, who is no fool, acted with vindictiveness and struck at Dr Schembri's livelihood.
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STOP PRESS: HOT NEWS JUST RELEASED. CHURCH TRIBUNAL RENAMED TALIBAN TRIBUNAL.
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Wasal iz-zmien li ahna l-Maltin lil-knisja nghidulha "Inti tifhem f'l-affarijiet tieghek izda tindahhalx f'taghna" i.e. Politicians (with balls) MUST remove all priviliges enjoyed by this moulding and medieval institution that harbours legions of paedophiles, whose leaders dress up in carnival costume, who more often than not deliver sermons not worthy even of a school kid. I challenge PL to promise to amend the law enacted by that super priest EFA. They asked for it... LET 'EM HAVE IT!!!
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@ The alchemist. You say that they should forgive her. I strongly disagree with you. THEY SHOULD APOLOGIES TO HER. Said Pullicino seem to be a law to himself. Maybe a few months in Iran will not go amiss. He tells the judiciary what they must do, he tells Dr Schembri that she is persona non grata and that she is a catholic of ill repute; maybe now he can tell us what he thinks about a church tribunal being superior to the civil tribunal. This is the Maltese catholic church of Cain in action. The bishop told us that there will be no crusades, now we find out that the church contributed more than 75% of the funding of the no movement. Lies, manipulation vindictiveness all in the name of Jesus. Jesus deserves better.
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Once the Divorce legislation is in place, the Tribunal will become the exclusive domain of the Fenech Adami family ... only the holiest of the holy will want to make use of it. Rational persons will simply seek a divorce, and to hell with what the Church thinks.   Now, all this could easily be settled IF Dr. Joseph Muscat, as leader of the PL and the next Prime Minister of the nation, were to state, unequivocally, that he will make it a top priority to completely separate the Church from the State by: 1) Repeal the Concordat; 2) Repeal sub-Section 1 and sub-Section 3 of Section 2 of the Constitutiion -- only a simple majority is required; 2a) Promise to work toward removing sub-Section 2 of Section 2 -- a two-thirds majority is required; 3) Remove all religious instruction from State schools.   It is not likely that Dr. Muscat will initiate any of the above unless a solid majority of Maltese were to raise the issue(s). Perhaps Malta Today could get the ball rolling through one of their polls asking the Maltese if they are in favour of any of the above. (For some reason, I am not holding my breath.)
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Dawn qishom iridu jivvendikaw ruhom minnha. Dr Schembri iggildet ghad-drittijiet ta' settur sostanzjali tal-popolazjoni Maltija. MIN SE JIGGIELED GHAD-DRITTIJIET TAGHHA? L-avukati qieghdin jaghmlu xi haga, imma nofs keddha. Il-partiti politici jpixxu taghthom fejn tidhol il- knisja. Din il-kwistjoni ghandha titqajjem fil-parlament. Il-gazetti jistghu jaghmlu iktar. Il-ministru tal-Guztizja ma semmiex lehnu. Said pullicino "the unelected bully" jisfida u il-merhla gwejda. JPO, Evarist u l-kumplament ghandhom issemmu lehenhom b'iktar forza. IBDLU il-LIGI. They keep theirs and we keep ours.
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See what happens when you mess with god.
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@Ganni Borg.. seems you need to read better what other people write... "il warrant ta avukat l istat itihulek... u jista jehodulek ukoll... dejjem fuq certu kriterji naqra iktar trasparenti u iktar regolati min tal knisja" Now you can try again.. ultimately one has to admit that the Catholic church is not a democratic institution... Like it or not it is the situation. The church provides you with a warrant to practise in its tribunals and it can take it away... is it right to take it away on such a reasoning as is the case of Deborah Schembri. I totally disagree with it myself, but it is perfectly within its remit to decide to do what it wants... and to those who are invoking politics in this.. rest assured if the PL were in power, the situation would be the same... it is primarily a church issue... you do not agree with it? fine.. get out of the Church or do not support it.. that is the only mechanism that can be used to influence the church... if you do not like the set of rules of the Church, simple, get out of it... we are not talking democracy here, where we vote for the people in power... these church votes for its leaders within itself, and its lay people are there to just well like it or lump it really..
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Adrian Busuttil
The church is apparently above Maltese secular law which they can flout with impunity. Refusing Deborah Schembri permission to appear before "church tribunals" is an abomination only permitted by this toothless administration but, I am sure, the wheel will turn...eventually.
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@Lucas North The state can only withdraw a lawyer's warrant for incompetence or misdemeanor - NEVER for his or her personal opinions. And they have to be proved before an impartial courts, not just on the say so of some cleric. Try again.
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guess the curia will soon receive a telephone call from Dar Centrali or OPM, pointing out that with this approach the floating voters in the districts in which Deborah Schembri will contest the next elections, have been given an additional reason to vote for Deborah (and thus the PL)!
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@Ganni Borg.. fil fatt jigri hekk sa certu punt... il warrant ta avukat l istat itihulek... u jista jehodulek ukoll... dejjem fuq certu kriterji naqra iktar trasparenti u iktar regolati min tal knisja..
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@ CE In għidt "jekk l qorti hu tal knisja mela l knisja ghandha tiddeciedi jekk persuna tistax tirraprezenta persuni ohra jew le. Mela skont l-istess raġunament (falz), la l-Qrati Ċivili huma tal-Istat, allura l-Istat għandu d-dritt jiddettalek li min tagħżel bħala avukat - mhux hekk?
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dawn biex jidfnu il laburisti fil mizbla alekk biss kienu tajjbin, bhal dak il korrott ta gonzi senior, iz-ziju tal prim, sewwa jghidu wenz, ma min rajtek xebahtek. il knisja hija farsa, yes to god, no to church.
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irridna nahfrulu? mur emmnu
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One other Maltese woman who was imprisoned for fighting for the social justice she believed in ended up becoming President of Malta.
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Luke Camilleri
No Good will coming from the Maltese Catholic church? Pjaciri u mhux drittijiet trid il-Knisja Maltija? Minjaf kieku Dr. Deborah harget mal P.N. , kienetx tbiddel fehmta il-knisja
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No amount of sanctimonious reasoning on the part of the church can possibly justify the injustice and prejudice shown towards Dr Schembri. This decision will only serve to boost her popularity and strengthen the resolve of those who seek justice against a self-serving, self-perpetuating institution.
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Il-Knisja Kattolika Appostolika qeda turina kif tkun ir-religjon ta' Sidna Gesu Kristu. Ghalfejn talbet il-MAHFRA IL-KNISJA ?. Ghalfejn jippridkaw fuq l-imhabba, karita, soledarjieta, hniena etc etc. Sewwa qallhom Sidna Gesu Kristu "Oqbra imbajda" Ahjar bhal dawk li mmorru iqerru mal-hjat. F'dan il-pajjiz tezisti biss "Might is Right" u xejn izjed.
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@CE My friend what planet are you living on? The church might have the right to deny DS work that is paid by the church, but they have no right to deny you and I the right to engage DS from representing us. By this action the church is dictating that only lawyers in line with their doctrine can represent the public in their tribunal which makes a direct statement that the church is selecting your representation. How can you be sure this lawyer is acting on your best interest or is simply there to appease the church while you pick up the cost that the Church sees fit to extract? No one should be surprised at these manouvers, after all the Catholic Chuch was built on extracting as much power and financial donations as possible from faithful followers. No one needs to openly discuss the agreement with Fascism & Mussolini. This is like lining up during Mass to receive the Body of Christ from someone whose hands have been abusing and molesting children for years. Deborah Schembri should be proud for what she accomplished and deserves the gratitude if this whole nation. All she has to do now, once the divorce legislation is enacted, she must switch her expertise from annulments to divorce. Final question for this Judicial Vicar, will the Church accept the divorce decrees that has been processed by lawyers who made it clear they supported the divorce legislation when annulments are filed with this Maltese church that has completely forgot the teaching of Christ? And is this Curia proud that it's action has turned Malta into ridicule? "God out of knowledge and good out of infinite pain And sight out of blindness and purity out of a stain."
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Why is the chamber of advocates dealing with the Church's tribunal with such kid gloves when they are breaking human rights of an individual? Depriving someone of her livelihood is not a sin? https://mazzun.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/l-apologija-ta-gonzi/
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I am very sure that since the local church follows Jesus' teaching to the dot they would forgive her and let practice her profession!
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someone should remind pawlu cremona about the maxim... 'when you are in a hole, stop digging!'
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Naqbel ma Lucas North. Min naha l ohra wasal z zmien li jitnehha l privileggi tal qorti tal knisja fuq l qorti civili.
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While sympathising completely with Dr Schembri, she did put her foot in it. Though it is unjust that she was singled out, ultimately the church dictates what happens in its own tribunals. Human rights violation? there might be an argument there, but then again the Catholic Church is not a signatory on Human rights if I am not mistaken. ( I stand to be corrected) I see very much the Church as a sort of club where the rules are laid beforehand and to form part of the club you have to follow the rules. Useless moaning or ranting against it. If you do not like it just get out of that club. While it is a pitiful state of reducing a faith on a club level, in my view that is basically the situation. I still have my faith in God, but I have lost complete faith in the church... The church is an organisation... the faith is something personal and spiritual. Dr Schembri should concentrate on the civil courts where I am sure with her recently found popularity she will definitely increase her client base.
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@ Giordano naqbel mieghek li l knisja ghandha jitnehhila d dritt fuq qorti civili.
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@ Ganni Borg jekk l qorti hu tal knisja mela l knisja ghandha tiddeciedi jekk persuna tistax tirraprezenta persuni ohra jew le. @ Fellus. Keep it up habib.
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Dear CE the thing is that the Church has been given powers that in all the world are the jurisdiction of the civil authorities. This in itself is an anomaly that somebody has to ratify. As Dr. Busttil said it is understood that being given this power the church is expected to see that human rights are protected. In the case Dr. Schembri is being denied her right to practice as a lawyer and her clients the right to choose her as their reppresentive. Therefore, it is the church's duty to accept her. On the otherhand, if the church persists in this very edyfing exercise it should forteit any civil juristiction it has on marriage. Than and only than it can violate of human rights to its heart's content. I do not care if its the church, You can't have the cake and eat too. Those days are over Mons.
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@ CE Għamlilna santissimu pjaċir - itgħallem ikteb bil-Malti. Irranġajtomlok ftit: "Ma rridx nidħol fil-mertu ta' jekk id-divorzju hux tajjeb jew le u ngħida minn quddiem li nammira l-attitudni ta' Dr Schembri. Min-naħa l-ohra, jekk persuna hi lesta li taħdem kontra l-interessi tal-kumpanija fejn taħdem, m'għandiex imbaghad tippretendi li wara jilqgħuha b'idejhom miftuħa. Dik hi l-ħajja. It-tagħlima li titgħallem minnha hi din. Bħal kull grupp ieħor, il-knisja tieħu ħsieb l-interessi tagħha. Mela, m'għandiex tieħu għaliha xejn jekk il-poplu Malti jieħu ħsieb l-interessi tiegħu vis à vis problemi bħall-immigrazzjoni illegali.
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The Chamber of Advocates should launch a constitutional challenge to the ecclesiastical tribunal's precedence over Maltese courts.
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@ CE Your comment is irrelevant. Advocates who appear for clients before the Church tribunals are NOT employees of that tribunal or of the Church. They are NOT paid by the Church but by their clients. In the same way that lawyers who appear for clients before the civil and/or criminal courts are not employees of (and not paid by) the courts but by their clients. Since the decisions of the Church tribunals have an effect in civil law, their standards have to be at the same level of those in civil/criminal courts. And in those courts it is not even remotely acceptable to ban a lawyer on account of his/her personal beliefs. Not in a democratic state.
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Min qal li hawn Malta ma ghawnx tmexxijja mid-dittaturi? Ghandna tnejn gwappi,Il-Gvern u l-Knisja. Jien daqshekk tajt flus lill-Knisja halli ma nkunx qed naghti flusi biex il-knisja tinqeda bihom kontra l-interessi tieghi. Tkunux aktar cwiec. Ghamlu bhali.
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Continued T Tghallima li titghallem minna hi din. Bhal kull grupp iehor l knisja tiehu hsieb l interessi taghha. Mela, mghandiex tiehu ghaliha xejn jekk l poplu malti jiehu hsieb l interessi tieghu vis a vis problemi bhal immigrazzjoni illegali.
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Ma nridx nidhol fl mertu ta jekk d divorzju hu tajjeb jew le u nghida min quddiem li nammira l'attitudni ta Dr Schembri. Min naha l ohra jjekk persuna hi lesta li tahdem kontra l interessi tal kumpanija fejn tahdem, mghandiex imbaghad tipretendi li wara jilqawha b'idejhom miftuha. Dik hi l hajja.
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The Church still needs to learn that when it finds itself in a hole it shold stop digging. They still do not accpet that this is Malta and not Iran of the ayatollahs.
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There's only one solution to this - revoke the 1995 concordat! As a Maltese citizen I demand that the Vatican has no intrusion whatsoever in MY country's State matters. What a shame! We're the only country in europe that bends over to the Vatican! Shame!
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Il-bierah rajt lil marisa fuq tx. bhal marisa issa naraw lil DS.
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The senile Said Pullicino should now be retired and put to graze. He's causing as much harm to the local church curia as the Ayatollah of Gozo did during the recent divorce referendum campaign. The Catholics of Malta expect our beloved Archbishop Paul Cremona to take the bull by the horns and start a reconciliation process with the lost sheep. First step: get rid of the arch-conservative Said Pullicino.
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U ejja issa din il-bicca se titwal wisq, jiena kont naqbel li waqt il-kampanja tad-divorzju l-Avukat Deborha Schembri kellha tieqaf milli tidher quddiem it-Tribunal imma issa ghadd kollox,wara kollox din nahseb kienet qed tidher ghal dawk li jridu jiehdu l-annullament (divorzju) skond il-knisja. Issa billi ser inhalluha barra l-knisja x'se tirbha? Ftit ftit il-knisja f'Malta qed titmermer u nahseb li ahjar l-Arcisqof jara x'jaghmel u jibda jigbor il-merhla mieghu u jigri wara dik il-mitlufa u mhux bil-paroli biss. Jiena nghid li l-Avukat Deborah Schembri ghadha tera tithalla tiddefendi l-klienti taghha fi-tribunal u malajr ghax hekk jaqbel li jsir. Il-knisja trid tahfer id-dnubiet li wiehed ikun ghamel.
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And one has to remember the last sentence of the debate where she dictated the doctrine of the church as if she is the pope.